of christianity and gnosticism
many… indeed many, as much as more than 60% of world’s population would believe that gnostics are those who are against christianity or are misinformed. i’ve even found testing websites of knowing your belief whether you are gnostic, christian or atheist, a crappy one i should say but i answered it none the less. the result: im a gnostic but i am open to christian faith… what the fudge?! the owner of that site didnt know what he’s talking about. other people who label gnostics would even speak and make it look like you are an anti-christ or somewhat like that. a friend spoke that way not knowing what my belief really is… this certain friend had no idea what’s inside my mind. even said i believe the story of the da vinci code and the gospel of judas. my 1st reaction; i really didn’t know if i had to be irritated or i’d laugh of what she spoke. to clarify things out… yes i’m a fan of dan brown but no, i dont believe everything inside that book. and yes… i’m a gnostic and i am a christian as well.
i’ve heard alot of accusations against me, that somehow describes me as a pagan, an anti-christ, being a member of a satanic cult. i’d laugh. these christians possessing a VERY ELEMENTARY knowledge think that they already know everything about God, life, and death. if i’d ask them a question, what does gnostic mean? i doubt they’d be able to answer that. a couple of times i’ve heard from them that ghosts are demons… i’d ask a question: have you seen one? they’d answer no. i rest my case.
the beginning of christianity had no christian bible, christian/catholic churches never existed, and there were more than 30 gospels written in the new testament, including the gospel of mary magdalene, gospel of judas, gospel of thomas, gospel of philip, etc. note: all of these gospels including the gospels matthew, mark, luke and john which are in the bible were not written by these authors, themselves. and all of these were written after the author’s death. christianity was an illegal religion, romans used to kill people if they were found out theyre christians. they’d torture them till death. so christians, before we try to
label others, think 1st how our religion came out to be. and how it was
centuries ago.
gnostics are people who have the mystic knowledge of the divine. advanced knowledge of christian faith. people who possess knowledge that just not learned from any book but also understood divinity from within. so why church leaders are against gnostics? simple, they will lose followers. gnostics, after gaining wisdom, would need no advice. neither they need no priests, nor church leaders. and since there will be no followers no tithes shall be given to them. leaders wont earn anything. thus they were bothered. still, im not saying that we dont need to learn these gospels for us to know things naturally. we still need that bridge to cross and enter the challenge to seek for greater truth.
June 2nd, 2006 at 3:58 pm
Hehehehe…. this is so true. I’ve also got my own rants on how many (not all) Christians think. The thing that pisses me off the most is when they deem all other religions/beliefs as evil or as the work of the “devil”, when they don’t really know ANYTHING about that religion. (eg. Witches worship the devil and sacrifice babies…. lol). Fair enough that they base their entire belief on the Bible alone… but why are they so afraid of Science? I pity them for thinking that the Creation Story’s Trees of Knowledge and Good and Evil are actually… EVIL or BAD for mankind. Hehehe… Attempting to attain Knowledge and Wisdom is Evil because……..?????? lol…
Plus they don’t even know the actual historicity of their own religion. lol. Eg. Pity that they don’t know that Noah’s Ark story was ripped from an older Babylonian Great Flood story of Gilgamesh. (And yes, they will deny that these pre-Bibilical stories existed.) Sad, isn’t it?
I can write an entire novel ranting on the close-mindedness of many of these stuck up Christians (you’re not stuck up, are you? so you’re not one of them… hehe)
Gnosticism is a beautiful religion which deals on the Inner Mysteries of Christianity…. on the Inner Self of a Being…. we are “Temples of God” are we not? So why don’t we start knowing God from within our Selves. (And no, this doesn’t necessarily mean that we are God ourselves.)
Gnosticism is one of my most favourite religions… but I’m not one of them. I’m more of an Agnostic. hehe. There’s only one thing I know absolutely. That is, I know Nothing.
Brightest Blessings to you, Liyam! Mwaaahh!!
(p.s. I used to be hard core ‘charismatic’ Catholic brought up in a Jesuit Catholic school hehe… and no, I do not regret a single second that I have spent being a Catholic)
June 4th, 2006 at 12:46 pm
Boy oh boy, don’t even think about discussing Gnosticism with “so-called Christians”. Since the St. James version of the Bible does not contain a single Apocryphal/Deutero-Canonical book, you wouldnt expect the “christian brethren” to understand what Gnosticism is, would you?
Tch tch… Liyam.
Dare you be branded a heretic? Dare you be condemned to the fiery depths of hell by a bunch of nincompoops?
Take heed.
You can never discuss things logically with “bible-thumpers” who think their interpretation of the Faith is the only TRUTH, and that others who see the Faith in a different light DO NOT POSSESS THE TRUTH.
-0-
Now on to the Gospel of Judas, the Gospel of Thomas the Doubter, and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene…do add the Book of Enoch to your reading list too.
June 5th, 2006 at 6:16 am
Phhffftt!! Erratum!
It’s King James not St.James (…for cryin’ out loud)
June 5th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
It’s not about bashing and burning of other peoples’ faiths. Oh… wait… Christians do that. lol hehe From my (and many others’) perspective, we don’t really care what other people want to believe in. We don’t care if you believe in the second coming or in a rapture where you’ll be swept off your feet by super angelic aliens. lol We don’t care. Your belief, your faith, your path works for you. But it doesn’t necessarily work for all. Condemn us to hell all you want. Your threats don’t work. Why? Some of us don’t believe in a heaven or a hell. Some of us have a different perspective to life. Some of us don’t need to be threatened to be good sons and daughters, brothers/sisters or parents. We don’t need to tell our beloved children that they were born sinners! and that they are imperfect! We’d rather empower their strengths and motivate them with improving their weaknesses. We do not need to be threatened by a hell or eternal condemnation? Why? Because we see the goodness in man/things. We’re not pessimists. We don’t need to blame the devil for the mistakes/errors we’ve committed. We take responsibility for our faults and try to correct it in order for us to improve and grow.
We respect other peoples’ faiths. In fact, we dont care what you want to believe in! lol… It’s the Fundamentalist Christians who are warring against other religions! There’s just no respect at all. Religious intolerance. (hey dont take it wrong, more than half of my friends are Christians and I adore them… but there are also tossers out there who think they know Absolutely fck all)
Oh.. don’t forget the previously-lost Book of Jasher (i bet you people have never heard of this one huh? lol)
*switches off rant mode*
June 5th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
To Streitender:
“You can never discuss things logically with “bible-thumpers” who think their interpretation of the Faith is the only TRUTH,”
by the way… i have tried discussing a lot of things with “bible-thumbers” in a logical manner.. and frankly… to tell you the truth… they have a SELECTIVE LOGIC. lol. trust me… the only logic they believe in are those which can only be found in the Bible and the Bible alone.
For example… take the ‘logic’ that monotheism (highly probably) began in Egypt - pioneered by Akhenaten who venerated (and declared) one god, “the Aten”… which was succeeded by Tutankhamun (yes, the great King Tut)…. can never ever EVER be accepted even as a teeny tiny possibility by Christians because this simply contradicts the Bible…. but archaological & scholastic evidences state otherwise… (and Christians don’t realize that this doesn’t stop here… the story is related to Moses)…
anyway… am sleepy. am going to bed. nyt hehe
June 6th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Most “bible-thumpers” are no exegetes that much I can say.
At best, their interpretation of the bible is faulty and subjective. This is due to the common practice of reading personal interpration into verses.
I have yet to hear an objective interpretation of scripture from their ilk. By that, I mean interpreting scriptural content in the light of historical & archeo-cultural contexts; as well as examining a verse using the entire Bible itself as context.
And yes Dhay, theologians worth their salt would include analyzing the probable influence of Akhenaten’s monotheistic practice on the development of modern day Christianity, and use it as reference for Biblical interpretation.
(Mr. Estrada, your blog has belatedly turned itself into a forum for religious discussion. Would there be any “Christian fundamentalist” among your friends who would like make a statement on the comments here?)
June 6th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
lolz! hi Diane, been a while! anyway, this bothers me everytime i’d try to figure out the story of adam and eve, “does the tree of knowledge mean that we were forbidden to be wise and intelligent? and then ive heard a different explanation of the fruit, the snake and eve, which is all about having sex; (this teaching came from a catholic priest one sunday when i was around 14-15yrs old btw) which i didnt really understand until lately that i read from another website that the eating of the fruit meant of the devil tempted and succeeded on making out with eve, to which she enjoyed and told adam of the pleasure of it and they did it as well. God found about it then they were kicked out of eden. so then it still keeps on bugging me, what is that knowledge forbidden really? ive told my mom before about this preaching and she said it was absurd.
and then there to follow the story of abel and cain. abel was killed, cain ran away, how did cain obtain a wife and a child if they were the only people on earth? dont you find that a mystery that until now unsolved?
and the dark ages, the time constantine made christianity as an official religion of rome, where the symbolisms of like Zeus as the same as God and Diana as to Mary etc. and another bit of history, although constantine brought to his wing the christians, he did not convert to orthodox christianity, he died as as an arian. but its the chi-rho in his vision is believed that gave constantine his success. constatine just used the christians for him to be established as a ruler of rome due to greed. basically he didnt just want a part of rome, he wanted the whole of it.
how tough christianity was in the dark ages? they eradicated all forms of learning except christian literature, the bible was written in latin and people were forbidden to own one. once caught then youre burned to death.
hehe Alyse~~ its just that i get annoyed when these people try to think youre out of path. it just irritates me. remember when born again people were like the ones being labeled as “sinners” or something when we were kids? now its somehow the other way around lolz! worse is that sometimes they’d tell you that its not right to have a relationship with a different sect of christianity. dont you find it so absurd?
*back to sleep mode*
June 6th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
There are quite a number of unmentioned Apocryphal books not a lot of us know about. Some are incomplete.
The Gospel of Judas is one among several writings in the New Testament Apocrypha. There is also the lesser known Acts of Andrew, Acts of Barnabas, Secret Gospel of Mark… etc.
For quick reference of the Apocrypha and those books excluded from the King James version of the Bible check out
http://scriptures.lds.org/bda/apcryph
June 6th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
To quote you:
“worse is that sometimes they’d tell you that its not right to have a relationship with a different sect of christianity. dont you find it so absurd?”
Simple explanation to that:
Getting into a relationship with a different sect may dilute their ranks.
Consorting with individuals of a different sect may cause the “born-again” follower to renounce his/her “born-again” religious pronouncements.
So they find it better to stick with their own kind or else proselytize the non-”born-again” into their fold.
It’s an issue of numbers actually. ROFLMAO
June 7th, 2006 at 11:10 am
thats what im actually not happy about. its like saying the person is not welcome to be part of born again member’s life nor that person shall be welcome to become a part of that sect. i have a friend who had an issue with that and when i remember that incident it just irritates me.
June 11th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Re: I have yet to hear an objective interpretation of scripture from their ilk. By that, I mean interpreting scriptural content in the light of historical & archeo-cultural contexts; as well as examining a verse using the entire Bible itself as context.
Poor thing. If that’s how you look at it… you haven’t read/heard enough… go on… go back to the library… hehe
Re: the story of adam and eve…
This story was written way after the Torah was written. Have a peek at the Kabbalist Tree of Life. You will find there what exactly the Trees were supposed to mean.
Christians argue that being Wise and Knowledgeable is a NO NO, or simply a waste of time because we “dont need Wisdom” to enter the “Kingdom of God”. And that this “Knowledge and Wisdom” corrupts mankind. Doh! Millions of references to Knowledge and Wisdom being “bad” can be found on the Bible.
Remember that Kabbala isn’t some weird new age religion. It’s a mystical ancient Jewish one. So its up to you if you want to believe in their Knowledge or not.
Re: eating of the fruit meant of the devil tempted and succeeded on making out with eve
Ooh… lucky b@stard. hehe Also remember that the Serpent was a symbol of God’s Power in the Bible. Remember the staff that Moses dragged along with him all the time. And when “God” turned the staff into a Serpent in front of Pharaoh? Ding! There you go… symbol of God’s Power. Now how did it become the devil? hmmm…
As this Garden of Eden story was inserted by the Judeans (who split from the Israelites)… they wanted their own Temple of Jerusalem to be the “House of God” (Beth-el) and not the Altar thingie that Moses had setup on Sinai/Horeb/Hor when God revealed himself. The Judeans despised the Israelites, and despised Moses as well…. and what best depicted Moses as God’s Instrument of Power? The Staff/Snake. Same goes with the Bull that Moses and his people venerated. They didn’t venerate a Bull god… but the Bull actually symbolised an aspect of God’s Power (not God himself… hence… no image of God was created… and no idolatry went on). The Bull was called Baal. Which simply meant… Lord…. or Master. Simple as that. The Beth-Baal in the Bible isn’t Hell or the the Demonised… but simply the place of worship/altar that Moses has setup in Sinai. And yeh, the Judeans were really pissed. Actually this was an issue of Politics… not Religion. lol
Re: Which she enjoyed and told adam of the pleasure of it and they did it as well
Tell me… what’s so Evil about the Unity of Man and Woman. It simply rings Perfection and Ultimate Power to me…. an opportunity to reach the Higher State of Consciousness (in a mystical way)… and even more when it’s related to God’s aspects of Power and Perfection. Doh! (Gnostic concept)
Re: mystery that until now unsolved?
I’ve asked about many other mysteries in the Bible as well… the only answers I got from Fundamentalists?….. “God is a Mystery”…. doh…
Re: basically he didnt just want a part of rome, he wanted the whole of it.
It’s not Religion that makes the world go round but Politics… Then, Now and until the End of Times. hehe
Basically.. I can’t answer any of these questions either if based solely on the Bible. If “GOD” has given us brains…. why aren’t we allowed to cite from other sources as well? I mean… if the Bible was complete and the whole entire perfect Truth… then why are its believers so threatened about Science, Archaeology, Maths, etc. lol
Re: its just that i get annoyed when these people try to think youre out of path. it just irritates me.
Me too. How do they know that THEY’RE on the RIGHT path anyway? They think they Know all just because of the Bible? Fair enough if it is “GOD’s WORD”… but duh.. it was manually written by “inspired” Sinners…. who are those who are prone to commit error and mistakes, whether deliberate or not. In short… we may have been given all these opportunities and Knowledge and Wisdom and whatever…. but Ultimately… we know sh!t for Nothing! None of us… not even the Pope.. Knows anything Absolutely for Certain. We know nothing.
So nobody really knows if who’s on the ‘right path’ or not. You know what I call those kind of people? The (Religiously) Intolerant.
Oh well… hehe
June 13th, 2006 at 11:56 am
On the following statements from the poster Dhay
“Re: I have yet to hear an objective interpretation of scripture from their ilk. By that, I mean interpreting scriptural content in the light of historical & archeo-cultural contexts; as well as examining a verse using the entire Bible itself as context.
Poor thing. If that’s how you look at it… you haven’t read/heard enough… go on… go back to the library… hehe”
Your reaction to my post is nauseously patronizing.
If you read the whole entry, you just might realize that I was in total concurrence with your previous posts as well as Mr. Estrada’s.
From your condescending reaction, it is obvious you are ignorant of the principles of exegesis. I am sure your theology professors must’ve explained what the term means. I gather you were absent the day that was discussed. LMAO
Strange you keep talking about using Science, Math, Archeology as integral elements to religion and understanding the Bible, yet you take offense at my posts. If you go through it again, my entries back-up your earlier posts, not contradict it.
You are hilarious lady.
Then again I can’t blame you if yours is a problem of reading comprehension. You can seek help from professionals for that. Have no fear.
Incidentally, “feel” isn’t the appropriate word to use for empirical evidence. Feel is utilized for subjective experiences, not objective ones. Or didn’t your teachers remind you about that on term-paper writing?
If you wish to be academic about your posts, I suggest you predicate these with reference material. It will lend more credence to your statements.
I am not here to debate on who has read more, or who hasn’t.
Nor am I here to contradict statements nor try to win an argument. From the onset mine was merely a statement in response to Mr.Estrada’s blog. However, it seems to have elicited such a nasty reaction from you.
If you have a beef with what I wrote - the matter is not my problem. It is yours.
Here’s a worthwhile suggestion to you: take your own advice. Go to the library and read some more. It might help solve your comprehension problem.
If it’s reality check you need, go and immerse yourself in the world. You will make your Jesuit mentors proud.
I rest my case.